"Fire and water".
Fascinating radio discussion on the nature of Heaven at:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/inourtime/inourtime.shtml
It mentions when humans started blaming themselves ("oh what sinful creatures we are") rather than blaming God for the ills in the world. A discussion of fault in part.
I found also interesting the fact that one never gets to hear what the debaters actually believe themselves. They are just commenting on history and what other people thought. They sound like IT Consultants :-)
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