Tuesday, October 11, 2005

Confusing Belief with Reality

Ah, now I must disagree with you, good sir, and do so in a most strident fashion!

You wrote:
Christians say that the existence of YHWH is a fact. I'm being picky I know, but it's not a fact until it is measured and agreed upon by all observers.

Perhaps we're arguing over semantics. As I've stated before, the existence of God either is or is not, and whether it's measured and agreed upon by all observers has no bearing on it at all. If tomorrow everyone agreed God did not exist, that agreement would not change God's existence. If he is, he would continue to be.

However, if what you meant by the use of the word "fact" is simply to mean "agreement to an assertion," then yes -- it would require agreement by all observers. But fact used in that sense and reality are not the same thing.

You wrote:

In a vacuum light travels at 186,000 miles per second. This is a fact. It has never deviated from this speed in vacuo no matter what the religious belief of the observer is.

Well, more precisely, 186,282 miles per second, but let's not get distracted. I agree, that is a fact -- the velocity of light in a vacuum is a natural constant. It is reality. The number applied is somewhat arbitrary since "mile" and "second" are manmade things. But nevertheless, if I and a group of others used tools of our own to measure that and all agreed that the number was 300,000 quatloos per bing-bong, it would not change the actual natural constant that is the velocity of light in a vacuum.

Your first bullet and your second bullet contradict one another. In your first bullet you assume the constancy and reality of the speed of light. In your second bullet you assume that the existence of God is dependent upon an agreement as to the definition and nature of God. By that logic, then, if I bring together a group of people who believe the speed of light is something different, then the "fact" of the speed of light is no longer true.

Again, I cycle back -- the existence of God ... not our beliefs about him or what we call him or what we think of him or feel about him -- but the very existence of God either is or is not.

Now, getting to your point about quantum mechanics and your attempt to apply that to the existence of God. Three points:

  1. God is not physical matter, but pure Spirit. He stands above, beyond and outside things like quantum mechanics.
  2. He created quantum mechanics; he is not a product of it.
  3. God is not created himself; he is and always was. All that is he created ex nihilo, out of nothing. "In the beginning God created ..." (Genesis 1:1)

We can debate about all three of those points. Heck, we can even argue about whether God exists or not. But my original point, which is truly unassailable, is simply this: if God exists, then he exists. That is simply if A, then A.

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