Boys keep swinging

You asked:

Your turn -- do you think we're merely programmed beings, whose primary stimulus is the pain/pleasure variables?

Yes. Although I wouldn't use the adjective "merely" -- we are an amazing achievement !!

If we are indeed programmed to pursue self-interest, to the exclusion of all else, then it does leave little room for the influence of moral ideas.

I'm not sure that I agree with that. The examples you gave seem to clearly fit into the pleasure/pain principle. On these moral behaviours you asked:

Where does that come from?

Well I believe it comes from societal pressure. I have seen many people "being nice" to people. I've also sometimes seen how these people "play up" how moral they are in sacrificing something (money, time, etc). I suspect that inside they resent their kindness but do it for the reason that the pleasure they receive from society for doing so is greater than their loss. Or, society does not inflict pain on them for doing their kind deed. Or God may not inflict pain on them for doing their good deed. In all cases their actions adhere to the pleasure/pain principle. To appreciate this one has to be 100% honest with oneself (not something I find easy to do).

My observations of two young children growing up provide the information for my summation above. They need to be told to "be nice" in the altruistic fashion. Interestly though, they usually understand the concept of "treating others how they wish to be treated" though. When they see injustices in the world they recognize them, they do seem to have some innate sense of "right" and "wrong" I will grant you -- but it's rooted in "I wouldn't like that to happen to me".

Imagine a human child from birth brought up by an alien society where something we find abhorrent is common practise. How would that child act if dumped into Earth society?

Question: are you aware of any examples of animals appearing to pause and enjoy a sunset?

My old cat did once. I swear it. Who knows though. I'm a dog person really.

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Mustafa wrote: Cultural materialism means living as if there were no God or moral absolutes, and all that matters is matter.

Is he mandating a definition of "Cultural materialism" there? I would have thought that there are many things between "living as if there were no God or moral absolutes" and "all that matters is matter" (whatever he means by "matter" in this case). These binary statements remind me of your hero CSLewis. Were it has to be "A" or "B". Hey!!!! What about "C,D,E,F..." etc.

Mustafa, if anyone thinks believing in natural selection precludes (or excludes?) an Intelligent Desinger is most probably not correct. No more debate needed.

Mustafa, you and everyone one else will never know if there in an Intelligent Designer, but you and everyone else, are entitled to their beliefs.

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Ah the Lennon thing. I was led astray by a distraught female, I felt sorry for her crying her eyes out at John's departure. Turns out she had ulterior motives. Not a pleasant (first) experience !!